MSMGA (Mountain States Meat Goat Assoc)
meeting October 10, 2009 at Blackfoot U of I Extension
Office.
Don Wager, VP of MSMGA was the speaker. Other attendees
included Judy Novak and Evelyn Simon from SRMGA, Alesia
, Victor & Brittany Sterner from Pingree, ID, Laurie
Camphouse, Garth Holms, Dustin Davis & his wife, and
about 12 others, including some 4H youth. Beverages and
donuts were enjoyed by all and we had pizza brought in
for the lunch break.
Don – His business card says The Feed Store –formulated
feeds. 130 Industrial Rd, Duchesne, UT 84021. (435)
738-2358. He’s agreed to be part of MSMGA for two years,
I believe he has one nearly done so far. His goal is to
help the association get on its feet again and develop a
good pooling contract and mainly to get commercial goats
moving from producers to buyers so that producers can
stay in business. He and his wife kept emphasizing
cutting costs, saving money, thinking outside the box to
save money. They have 1000 head of range goats, only
50-60 fullblood Boer, the rest are crosses: Boer /
Spanish / Kiko. His neighbor has 1500 goats. Don runs
them on 10,000 acres of desert, sagebrush near Duchesne,
UT . His main focus for MSMGA is pooling goats– get
producers together to form big groups of goats to
interest the commercial meat goat buyers. We can make
more money by selling combined lots to regular buyers.
Marketing:
He calls buyers for offers, gets the best price he can.
Don says buyers will come to our area if we get big
enough groups of goats together. Richard Gilton –
California is one of the buyers he contacts.
Don collaborates with Pinkerton writing articles for the
Goat Rancher. He recommends these books:
Stockman’s Handbook by Ensminger, Livestock &
Poultry Production by Bundy & Diggins and one other
that I didn’t get written down. They are old books but
the nutrition information is still valuable and
pertinent.
An association is only as good as its worst member. Get
the most qualified persons you can get. Don would like
to see MSMGA and SRMGA join forces into one association
– for all the mountain states, so that we can combine
efforts and pool goats in three groups for buyers, such
as ID/UT and UT/CO and CO/WY.
Buyers can’t get interested in fat animals either; the
fat ends up on the floor as waste. Look for avenues to
sell commercial goats. Dairy goats are always grade 3.
We all need to learn how to mouth goats. Over milk tooth
goats are rejected by buyers. They have to show milk
teeth. Over milk teeth goats can be sold but it has to
be a separate load. Goats have to be conditioned for
shipping. Light kids don’t do well if they are weaned
then immediately put in a feedlot because their rumens
are not developed enough. Their rumens are used to only
milk and the change is too great. Wean kids so their
rumens can develop. He weans kids between 60 and 90
days.
Buyers will come here if we have a big enough group.
Freight fees can be only $4.50 to $5.50 a head, with no
commissions or other fees. We can make more money than
taking them to an auction. Small auctions like SRMGA
don’t have enough commercial stock in one group to
interest buyers. If SRMGA could get ten groups of ten
commercial does together, then 100 commercial does would
interest a buyer like him. If we get 200 head of does
and wethers to a facility near here, that would interest
a meat buyer. Bucklings are very popular for Muslims,
as are mature bucks.
50 head of bucklings would draw a buyer. He gets a semi
load from Texas - $400 a head for yearling to two year
old range ready cross bred bucks. He loses 10-15% of his
bucks a year. They must be range ready – not fat, not
show animals, not 4H stock. He breeds Boers to Kiko/Spanish
and keeps those crosses for range bucks. He wants a 3
way cross. The yearlings go to work while the older
bucks fight. He likes to condition bucks together first
so they don’t kill each other. He raises groups together
so they are used to each other.
A full load is 400 head. Don calls around for offers, he
tells buyers how many, what type and members have to be
committed to supplying what they have agreed to. MSMGA
is working on a pooling contract to use. Freight charges
would be less and no commissions are paid. Illinois is
too far – a 22 hr drive. Alesia Sterner said she did
that trip twice. Some of the goats were underweight, and
some died before they got there. The ORMGA has had a
good contract from the start. He would like to know what
numbers of goats we could come up with > Let’s all work
together. Numbers will do your marketing for you – get
groups together, pool goats together. You can figure on
4-5% shrinkage for a long haul. Pay attention to ethnic
holidays; Muslim holidays are the end of November this
year but they change by 2 weeks each year.
If goats are only 45-65 lb they go to feedlot to grow.
The market from Nov. 15 to Dec 15 is .20 higher, from
Dec. to Jan. another 20 cents higher. Bucklings
generally bring 10 cents a pound more. Feb. and March
another 40 cents. Cull does make money. Last November
cull does brought 26 cents, then in February 96 cents,
buy low, feed, then sell high. Mature animals process
feed better, it only takes 3 lbs feed to make 1 lb
growth, where a kid needs 6:1 or 7:1. (Did I get this
right?)
FEEDS:
Learn how to use feed equations to balance your rations.
Use the books. Do the math.
Buy bulk whole grain, use protein percentage of that
(ask for tests on it) and the protein percentage in your
hay or forage, add soybean meal to increase protein as
needed. ADM in Twin Falls has soybean meal $6./100 lbs.
which is inexpensive protein. If you are using barley
you may need to add SCarb (sodium bicarbonate = baking
soda). One producer asked about adding Allafat, a fat
product. He said it is 90% bypass fat, it is tallow and
he does not use it. Best not to use any animal products
in our feed.
Example of figuring what protein is in your feed:
Oats that have been tested at 12% x 100 lbs. = 1200
units
Alfalfa tested at 21% x 100
lbs. = 2100 units
Divide total units, 3300 by total lbs. 200, = 16.5%
protein in your ration. If your ration is too low in
protein, add soybean meal. Protein is not the only
figure you need, you need the TDN, this is just an
example.
He is a FIRM believer in using minerals, free choice. He
is a feed dealer and sells minerals too. 50 lb bags at
$17.65. I bought some and the goats love it. He mixes
minerals with these other items and feeds this free
choice. If his herdsmen forget once, they get chewed
out, if they forget twice, they get a ride to town! You
can’t overdo minerals. Do not run out of them or you
will have weak, dead, malformed kids and birthing
problems.
He uses this mixture that incorporates his mineral
product :
Use a 3 lb coffee can to measure:
3 cans minerals
1 can baking soda
1/3 can feed grade yeast
2 cans 4 g myacin (like terramycin crumbles)
1 can dry molasses
Or for top dressing: ½ teaspoon yeast per pound of
grain, ½ tsp. baking soda, ½ tsp. soybean meal, 1 tsp.
vegetable oil if needed.
Weak kids and problems kidding means your feed ration is
out of balance. If low on phosphorus, use monocal phos
26% phosphorus mix. Alfalfa can be high in calcium, need
to get back in balance. When you get a ration together,
write it down. He prefers wheat to barley. Barley is
12-13% protein but soft white wheat is the best feed
there is; higher in protein and fat. Too much protein is
not good, balance your rations! 16% protein is good.
Show animals could get 18%. Take the 2% of your herd
that is show quality and work with them, treat the rest
like commercial goats. Oats are 12% protein and 2.2 to
2.5 % fat. Balance fat to protein. Again; what is the
cheapest feed source in your area? If it has to be
balanced using something expensive and it won’t pencil
out, keep looking. After doing some math on the board
with different feeds and adding soybean meal for more
protein, we all learned that by mixing our own feeds we
could cut our feed costs in half. Distillers grain is
best – it comes from whiskey distilling. Brewers grains
are ok, but not as good as distillers. Urea not
available anymore, but you will see it in feeds listed
as NPN (non protein nitrogen).Too much is bad for
kidneys.
The more natural a feed the better – use whole grains
not rolled, if you can, don’t spend extra for
processing. Use low cost vegetable oil to add fat and
reduce dust in feeds. Peas are great feed, oat/pea hay
is wonderful. Peas are 25% protein. Triticale is a
wheat/rye cross and an excellent hay if SMALL stem and
beardless. Some kinds result in shatter cane problem;
splinters, sore mouths, infected tongues. Oat hay is
great. Kidney beans are 26% protein, 7% fat. Use 500
gallon silage bags to make your own silage; stuff beet
tops in, put in a valve and suck out air with a shop
vac.
Don’t be fooled into buying only ‘goat’ feed. Cattle
feed is a lot cheaper. Feed grade yeast provides the
live bacteria in the gut, can double the live bacteria
resulting in better gain. 1/2 tsp yeast to 2 lb feed.
Make sure your creep feeds develop the rumen – bulky
like hay, not just grain!
Canada beef producers don’t use corn, they use barley
and wheat. We don’t have to use corn. Use what is
available and lowest cost and balance rations
accordingly. Watch your goats-learn from them. Beet
pulp was discussed, as there are sugar beet factories
locally. You won’t need to soak it if it is just a
small percentage of the feed and mixed well. He suggests
mixing you own feeds to save money; get a wheelbarrow
and a shovel for small lots. Feed a 150 lb. goat ½ lb.
of grain a day for maintenance.
Use what you can find in your area; beet tops can be fed
and are similar in feed value to grass hay. Use the
corners where pivots don’t irrigate, use corn stalks,
bale the weeds along side the road, get screenings from
mills, leftovers from bakeries, anything that is cheap
or free , to keep costs down. Mix all dry items together
to reduce goats picking through it. Cut feed costs
wherever you can. Get a 7 ft JD flail chopper and run it
over beet tops or other available feed and blow it into
a bale wagon. He likes a Lil’ Augie 3 ton feed mixer
that works off a PTO. 60% TDN (total digestible
nutrients) and above is better than a maintenance
ration. Hay and other dry feeds should be at or less
than 14% moisture.
Use feeder hay, year old hay; “goats don’t need
racehorse hay!”. Have rained on alfalfa hay tested, and
pay a lower price accordingly. It can still have an
adequate protein content. Rained on hay may look ugly
but it can still be nutritious. BUT- do not feed moldy
hay!!! Feeder hay retains all vitamins and minerals and
it can be twice the quality of grass hay. He feeds a pen
of 60-80 bucks feeder hay and they do great. 10% protein
is a fine maintenance ration. The important thing in a
feed is the acid detergent and the neutral detergent
–(TDN) acidosis is the #1 killer of goats. We can adjust
protein and fiber.
Use common knowledge easily found in these books to
create a formula. He uses baking soda to offset acidic
rations. His goats also eat sagebrush and knapweed,
cedar trees and Pinyon pines. They keep the trees pruned
but don’t kill them. (because the range is so large)
Showing:
Ribbon Fever –“get over it” If only 2% of your goats are
show quality, then 98% are commercial.
Breeds
Don really likes Spanish goats – very tough, excellent
mommas, high tight udders, no problems with too much
milk, ketosis, no snotty noses, and very range savvy. He
told a story of watching a Spanish doe kidding. He timed
her and it was only 15 minutes to have twins, get them
up and nursing, then head back to the herd. Spanish
goats are smaller but will raise nearly the same weight
of meat kids as Boers-see the Goat Rancher
article on test weights and ADG. Kiko bucks don’t do
well on his range, the Kiko does do, just not the bucks.
Spanish have better feet and are better range mothers.
Super motherability. Always consider Spanish – they are
the best mothers and hustlers. They will rake the
newborn kids back to the udder.
Weather determines kidding-bad weather means kids
coming. His goats kid in April and May. He flushes does
to get them cycling, he only power feeds 3 weeks before
kidding, not 6 weeks, as too much good feed results in
kids that are too big and kidding problems.
Health:
Find a Land Grant University for blood or feed testing
-every state has one. Logan ,UT is building a huge
equine center and a sheep/goat center is planned.
Become familiar with FAMACHA and use it to evaluate worm
loads. Don’t do what isn’t necessary; worm only those
that need it.
He does not vaccinate, he keeps a clean herd, bucks and
new does are quarantined for months before mixing with
the herd. Quarantining is easy for him as he has so much
space.
He only culls for CL if a goat has an abscess more than
once. He passed out an article reprint on CL with
interesting information : CL bacteria does not live in
the environment as long as previously thought.
Disinfect with bleach/water solutions.
Antibiotics: Draxxin is the best for pneumonia. There
are 4 strains of pneumonia and microplasma kills
the most animals. ‘93% of dairies in Jerome County have
it. ‘ Draxxin costs $330 a 100 cc bottle, but dose is
only 1 cc per 100 lb, one time. Actually not that
expensive if you compare the amount used per dose and
number of injections with Nuflor, LA200 etc. It is
used SQ. Also good for mastitis. It is a synthetic, so
it cannot be ‘stacked’, can’t use it after another
synthetic like Nuflor, for example. If you do the goat
will die. Use gloves. Safer for handler than Nuflor. 3
days slaughter withdrawal. Read the bottle, always,
before using. LA200 leaves brown stains in the carcass,
wastes meat, so Draxxin is best in his opinion.
He feeds Terramycin crumbles, 2g product is maintenance
ration -growth promoting, 4g product is for illness
treatment. He’ll use 4g and treat for several days to
knock out an arising problem. It won’t kill yeast
/bacteria in the gut at maintenance doses, but increase
the yeast a bit while using treatment dose. He feels
ProBios is not effective and unnecessary if you’re feeds
support bacteria growth. He feels good feed and yeast
are enough. Save your money and just buy feed grade
yeast. XP is the brand he uses and he passed out
nutrition tags for it. It has 12% protein,
corn/wheat/rye by products, malt, corn syrup, molasses.
He says it is the least expensive but there are others
available.
Resorb – electrolyte product for energy. Sick animals
need electrolytes, get their energy up. Get them
eating. If they stop eating, they are in trouble.
Acidosis is the #1 killer of goats.
Allstar is a dry milk replacer, use wet or dry, top
dress or bottle, hi energy and fat.
It takes days to balance a rumen that is out of balance.
Deal with acidosis. It can take 14 days to get a goat
back to normal. Prevent the acidosis in the first place
by feeding a balanced ration.
Eye problems: Sclera virus (pink eye) He says LA 200
does not work for that. He uses a pinkeye puffer and a
sulfur product. It is not so much the sulfur that is
working, it is the eye irritation caused by it, causes
the eye to heal itself.
There are very few Land Grant University studies on
goats. There are not enough organizations to demand it.
Get a blood battery done on animals before purchasing.
Use a university for lower cost. Test for CL, CAE and
Johne’s for example. He recommends 8 way vaccine –they
are customized for general locality. But an 8 way
vaccine that uses the least amount dose – inject in an
area that moves a lot like behind the front leg. Pinch
to seal the skin then rub with your thumb to distribute.
Don’t do what isn’t necessary. If you don’t need to buy
ear tags, don’t . California doesn’t need animals to be
scrapie tagged if they are still in milk tooth, or
wethered. He uses color zip ties to color code his
goats. Notch ears for culls. His range herd is good
through 6 and 7 years old.
Get your feed tested – important to have calcium
phosphorus ratio correct = bones, ligaments, muscles.
Test plants, not soil. Floppy kid and goiter - need
copper, selenium, phosphate, minerals!
While talking to other members:
Inexpensive goat shelter: 1500 gallon fertilizer tank.
Ask at growers, Valley Coop, Simplot-ask around for old
ones that they don’t want. Even smaller ones are good.
Very small ones can be cut in half for feeders.
One producer near Blackfoot sells live goats to ethnic
families, mostly young men come out to do the actual
purchase and slaughter. Prices are $1.10 Lb and the
preferred weight is 35 to 40 lbs. For larger kids they
charge $1. Lb. The buyers butcher them on site as the
producer provides a spot and trash bags.
Note from Joe and I:
We have been selling kids at 65-90 lbs., from $1.20 -
$1.50/lb. live weight, mostly to people that are
planning a BBQ; dairy ranchers, and people that have
enjoyed our goat at local restaurants. We have several
families of refugees from Bhutan that buy meat goats
from us; one family wants wethers only, the other says
bucklings are fine. We prefer to raise bucklings as
they grow fast. An extra that we provide: we haul the
goats (for free) to our local butcher, who lives only
two farms down the road. He charges $30 for kill/clean,
$50 for kill/cut/wrap. He is a custom butcher, not USDA.
The buyers pay him for processing, after they pay us
for the live animal.
We are still selling to restaurants and on
idahosbounty.org, which means we haul live goats to
Nampa for USDA processing. The most popular Idaho’s
Bounty goat meat items (members from Ketchum to Boise)
are roasts, loin chops, rib steaks, shanks, and stew. We
have found a couple delivery trucks that will backhaul
the carcasses to us if we meet them in Bliss or directly
to the restaurants in Wood River Valley. This saves us a
lot of time and fuel and only costs about $10 per goat.
We need a USDA plant in Twin Falls, as there are many
that would like to sell their ranch raised sheep, goats,
and cattle if it were more economical.
We are looking for a used, small refrigerated truck unit
or something we could put in our garage and use to hang
half or whole goats. We are also looking for a decent
used flatbed trailer. And …we have nice registered Boers
for sale including several fullblood bucklings ready to
work. We have a few does kidding late November, then
many in the first week of December.
I felt Don was an excellent speaker, had a lot of good
information. He was still answering questions at 3:30
when Judy and I left. He is eager to talk to SRMGA about
pooling and shipments. He says associations such as
ours need to find the best talent and members willing to
work.
I think I heard him say he does not eat goat meat, I’m
not positive I heard that right. But, it leads me to
ask; how many of us regularly eat our product? And what
does that say about our product if we don’t? I had two
people ask me this week if we eat goat – I was surprised
to be asked, but now I’m on a mission to let everyone
know: We LOVE goat! My favorite recipe is for shanks
in the slow-cooker.
Simon Boers Evelyn Simon & Joe Bennett (208)
539-2261 or 837-6523
